Curse

superraptors · Aug 23, 2010, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

About sway itself, the first version that cropped up with escape scythes and trappers was for low ranked pugs to farm UW with. It's kinda funny and sad at the same time how sway builds have morphed into something that people are completely serious about playing and trying to hold HoH with.

sway came way before escape scythes in many different forms oldschool nr/tranq , jagway etc

the people who ran these builds efficiently could hold was mroe then just a couple of rounds of farming.

any gimmick build including sway is capable of holding halls

Elentari · Aug 23, 2010, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Balanced > Everything. It has everything needed to deal with any situation. If you lose to shitter builds, you (as a team) are doing something wrong. Don't claim to be out-builded when you get out-played. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Difficulty is irrelevant when purely discussing builds; i.e. "a decent hexway/contagion/bbway/sway has a good chance of beating a decent balanced" doesn't make it the build's fault. It simply means that balanced requires more effort and coordination to play well, whereas gimmick builds require less skill and brains to do just as well. However, shitter builds are limited on what they can do. So, while it's true that the average gimmick beats the average balanced team, the best ones still have no chance against top tier balanced.

Also, holding halls these days is meaningless.
1. There's not enough good players left - no competition.
2. There's too many factors that you can't control in 3-ways.

Edwards · Aug 23, 2010, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elentari

Balanced > Everything. It has everything needed to deal with any situation. If you lose to shitter builds, you (as a team) are doing something wrong. Don't claim to be out-builded when you get out-played. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Difficulty is irrelevant when purely discussing builds; i.e. "a decent hexway/contagion/bbway/sway has a good chance of beating a decent balanced" doesn't make it the build's fault. It simply means that balanced requires more effort and coordination to play well, whereas gimmick builds require less skill and brains to do just as well. However, shitter builds are limited on what they can do. So, while it's true that the average gimmick beats the average balanced team, the best ones still have no chance against top tier balanced.

Also, holding halls these days is meaningless.
1. There's not enough good players left - no competition.
2. There's too many factors that you can't control in 3-ways.

QFT. When my guild has enough people on their game to play balanced we usually get decent runs with it. (Admittedly, we play during dead hour, but with some luck you can get 4-5 consecs on the way to halls) Of course, when we aren't playing well, we lose to just about everything we run into. If you're winning with balanced, then you pretty much know that you're on a decent team that's playing well.

Otello · Aug 23, 2010, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I had the occasion of playing in bbsway, as prism, during the double fame week end and I see it is still alive (and overpowered).
However, if you nerf it, the new sway meta is appearing. If you nerf prism, the same team with ritu backline will appear...
One of the good thing bbsway has brought in, is to get rid of many spike team that were even worst. SF, SH, RTL, bloodspike, rspike are almost disappeared. However, also balanced are disappeared, and this means something is wrong.

But I am not sure that bala disappeared because of bbsway. As I already said, a great number of good mesmers and rangers were in fact botters. The balanced can exist only if the two interrupters are sort of gods, and are able to interrupt soc, weapons, prots and ress at the right time. Otherwise it is difficult to even score one kill. Woom Wotu and other guilds have these very good (and fair!) interrupter, as for exemple Only specialist, that is still playing, but this are exceptions. Indeed, after the bans, a great number of good mesmers disappeared, and with them, a great number of good balanced teams.
Balanced, maybe, is not the best team ever. It is so famous only because Woom and the best guilds run it. But it relies in very good players. I think that they can play also SF spike and hold without problem. An example is MATH. They are running iway since I have memories. No one else run Iway now, or very few people, because it does not work. MATH can win hoh, because they are very good and know what to do in any occasion.
I always hear people calling them lamers, but iway is not lame, as they only can use it properly, it is probably underpowered, now.
People should stop judging the bars, and start to look at players.

Killed u man · Aug 23, 2010, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Balanced didn't get kicked out of meta because of BBsway, but it definatly contributed to it. Hexway is the main culprit. The PnH buff came as a response to the redicilous hexbuffs Anet pushed through. Then after the PnH nerf, no hexes really got nerfed. LC took a small hit, but it still highly effective, and other hexes only got buffed.

The biggest problem is also the high effective of both gimmicks: BBsway and hexway.

As a balanced, you can either take a PnH or a rit as your monk support character. The problem is that when you take a rit, you will get absolutely destroyed by hexways (I laugh when ppl attempt to bring convert) and when you take the PnH, bbsway will steamroll over you in no time.

And then you have the semi-hexways aka Mindwrack/esurge ways which can't even be countered, unless through interrupts. (Which doesn't count as a valid counter)

As for you; When you nerf something, something else will replace it. That's just how it goes when PvE'ers have overrun PvP. They don't care about honor (HA lulz?), challenge or even fun. They simply want to go in, bash some buttons and grind rewards. (They have thaught themselves that bashing buttons is fun, and therefor all these swayers and hexwayers will actually argue the build is fun to play, and they actually believe their own words)

But that's how it should be done regardless, untill all gimmick builds have been nerfed to such an extend that all these clowns can still run them, but get rolled by a semi-decent balanced.

In other words:

Nerf Brutal Weapon, Soul Twisting, both Falling dagger skills, Assault Enchantments (4 crit or more or 12-15 recharge), LC and Suffering adjecent range, Mind Wrack and Esurge.

That would reduce effectiveness of most current meta builds, and would be a solid start to a more balanced HA where bad people can still farm other bad people with their shitbuilds, and good people can actually beat bad people running shitbuilds.

vinoth · Aug 23, 2010, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

my point is builds like iway, bbway, esurge crap which take no skill at all to play need nerf because I'm sure noone wants to see those gimmick players winning hoh because build abuse.

Yes, Iway requires a nerf. Its very OP and can kill anything in 30 secs. Totally agree.

I hope u were being sarcastic when u said nerf iway. Calling for a nerf on iway is like calling for a nerf on Primal rage.

I am not a fan of bbsway or hexways. Its just these so called balance players cant change their play-style to adapt to the build. Oh! they are balance players, they expect to win without any work, cuz they non-button smash 3 2 1 build has to roll all - understood!.

Get better, dont complain. BBsway falls in 3 mins if u have a good team. Watch obs and see how good teams beat it. Same with hexways.

Same with hexway. Since bot got banned , balance players cant rupt 1 sec skills. Sad indeed. If balance people cant beat a shit bbway or hexway, perhaps they ought to go pve and kill minotaurs with honour builds.

Clearly, this killed you man guy has lost many a time to both such builds and due to his rather small intelligence level, he cannot come up with a way to beat it. Dont let that put of off. Run the build you are most comfortable with in an online game!

Conclusion: Stop complaining and get better. Change ur stupid build and adapt.

Othello:- From what I hear, Math members are extremely careful with the kind of talent they bring in. Every summer that MATH disbands, their members find their way into top 10 GvG guilds. This has happened since 2005. However, since they iway, they are noobs.

Elentari · Aug 24, 2010, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otello

I had the occasion of playing in bbsway, as prism, during the double fame week end and I see it is still alive (and overpowered).
However, if you nerf it, the new sway meta is appearing. If you nerf prism, the same team with ritu backline will appear...
One of the good thing bbsway has brought in, is to get rid of many spike team that were even worst. SF, SH, RTL, bloodspike, rspike are almost disappeared. However, also balanced are disappeared, and this means something is wrong.

But I am not sure that bala disappeared because of bbsway. As I already said, a great number of good mesmers and rangers were in fact botters. The balanced can exist only if the two interrupters are sort of gods, and are able to interrupt soc, weapons, prots and ress at the right time. Otherwise it is difficult to even score one kill. Woom Wotu and other guilds have these very good (and fair!) interrupter, as for exemple Only specialist, that is still playing, but this are exceptions. Indeed, after the bans, a great number of good mesmers disappeared, and with them, a great number of good balanced teams.
Balanced, maybe, is not the best team ever. It is so famous only because Woom and the best guilds run it. But it relies in very good players. I think that they can play also SF spike and hold without problem. An example is MATH. They are running iway since I have memories. No one else run Iway now, or very few people, because it does not work. MATH can win hoh, because they are very good and know what to do in any occasion.
I always hear people calling them lamers, but iway is not lame, as they only can use it properly, it is probably underpowered, now.
People should stop judging the bars, and start to look at players.

I'm getting from this that woom is the best at balanced and that balanced didn't exist before them.

Lol.

The playstyle of gimmick builds is linear: if each player does their individual part by mashing buttons on the correct target (usually no more than 2), the build works, you generate pressure and land kills.
That of balanced is versatile and dynamic: it relies on solid teamwork and ability to adapt and respond quickly.

The fact that a lot of gimmicks come and go means that they revolve around abusing a few "overpowered" skills. Hence when something gets buffed dis-proportionally or nerfed to crap, builds get made or scrapped. As it's been said, this isn't a bad thing because it keeps the meta alive by providing changing, different, easier builds with mild learning curves for new players to run. Going off on a tangent here: these builds are only "highly effective" because of the average level of play you see in HA these days. They are still trash. Also, PnH monk over a rit in balanced to counter hexway is laughable, you need the party heals (and resilient is ridiculous to give up). Try a rit with Empathic Removal with siphon for e management.

Anyway, you can't realistically nerf balanced. It's not only persisted through over 5 years of game updates (obviously it has gone through changes to adapt), but it always has thrived as the all-around best build.

In the end we come back to the inevitable point that it's all about the players. Balanced isn't dead because it's doomed to lose to gimmick builds over and over. It's dead because you can not get 8 players who actually can play balanced anymore.

vinoth · Aug 24, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elentari

The playstyle of gimmick builds is linear: if each player does their individual part by mashing buttons on the correct target (usually no more than 2), the build works, you generate pressure and land kills.
That of balanced is versatile and dynamic: it relies on solid teamwork and ability to adapt and respond quickly.

Let me elaborate on that point. EVERY team needs to be able to be versatile and dynamic in order to win. Tell me how versatile you need to be in split maps and relic maps?? A change in tactic by the other team needs to be countered equally. The statement that balance is versatile and dynamic is flawed. I can assure u r13 + balance these days cannot do just that - Be versatile. I remember once it was relics 1v1 and r13 + balance were holding. They tried to do a full block on us. I just had all my damage kill their run grp (cuz they had 1 monk). I had 1 monk and 1 dmg running. They could have countered it by having their rit run instead. This is not the only time, I have won against r13 + balance on several occasions on a 1v1 as long as its not koth. I do this w/o vent just to prove a point.

Its not rocket science to do 3 2 1 and land kills supported with shatters. But it is science to understand battle knowledge and what members of ur team are doing.

I also realise lots of balance are noob friendly to high rankers. For example I observe SUX often these days. They have a reasonable team. It could be made better if they kick certain members. Idk why they are there in the first place. I have seen them fail numerous times yet they get to play with SUX. I once did balance w/o vent once I knew I had competent players during peak euro. Had a semi full run vs so-called high ranked balance teams and I Was able to hold. In terms of skill.

1. The ability to observe map
3. Ability to think outside the box (This is general - most players dont have this. Even balance as they are soo used to their kind of play)
2. Ability to do maths (which most r13 + bala cannot do as they think that having 5 ppl on a shrine = 5 pips)
4. Ability to utilise glitches for ghost blocks, and knowing when to split.
5. Ability to weapon swap.

I know for a fact the people on my flist have these skills and all teams lack this one of the above skill and so will lose. If you have all these skills you will win vs hexway/sway/bbway/rspike. You name it.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 24, 2010, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Balanced didn't get kicked out of meta because of BBsway, but it definatly contributed to it. Hexway is the main culprit. The PnH buff came as a response to the redicilous hexbuffs Anet pushed through. Then after the PnH nerf, no hexes really got nerfed. LC took a small hit, but it still highly effective, and other hexes only got buffed.

Balance isn't kicked at all it's still strong if played right. If you got players with some brains you shouldn't have any trouble at all vs bbsway since your mesmer and ranger disable both prisms and fire ele spam rodgort on spirits... so you shouldn't have any trouble killing. About hexway...its mainly esurge and wota sins what make it strong not hexes... you can easy interrupt main hexes, but esurger and sins just steamroll u unless u can kill them very fast.

About nerfing iway... no need for primal rage nerf (it wouldn't be bad tho).. just nerf iway skill and prism.. it's op elite which makes u immune to any spike and grants u unlimited energy and is too easy to play in iway and bbway... it's easy in bbway because u have rit displacement spammer and pnh monk so u just have to click an heal or weapon every 10 secs or so (I know because I played it) and it's easy in iway because u don't have to look out for wars just yourself and sometimes pnh monk therefore u have your energy always full so reasonable thing would be to nerf that elite skill.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 24, 2010, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinoth

1. The ability to observe map
3. Ability to think outside the box (This is general - most players dont have this. Even balance as they are soo used to their kind of play)
2. Ability to do maths (which most r13 + bala cannot do as they think that having 5 ppl on a shrine = 5 pips)
4. Ability to utilise glitches for ghost blocks, and knowing when to split.
5. Ability to weapon swap.

1. The ability to observe map? Are you serious? You can take anyone who ever played hero battles and wasn't terrible you'll have that... seriously if you think throwing an eye on minimap to see where the enemies are takes skill you don't know what you're talking about.

2. Ability to do maths: that's where teams using vent instead of brains fail, they wait their leader to give a command to move... if he doesn't they just stand and being brainless that's why ventless hexways, iways and other lame do much better in such situations than those with vent.

3. Ability to think outside the box. That matters only for build making... when u play an build and u know how it works u just need to choose the best tactic and play it all the time why change playstyle if it works and wins.

4. Ability to utilise glitches for ghost blocks, and knowing when to split. Glitches don't work vs smart people so therefore in most cases they're useless because vs braindead people who would get ghost stuck you would win anyway even without stucking it. Knowing when to split is useless in iways because no matter where wars go they still have advantage.

5. Ability to weapon swap. Pretty much useless... unless you're snaring. Because having all those fancy nerd shield sets won't help at keeping you alive or winning the game anyway, personally I don't have time and I'm not nerd enough to make all those shields and stuff, just have one shield to provide me with additional health when needed and that's all.

Missing HB · Aug 24, 2010, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

1. The ability to observe map? Are you serious? You can take anyone who ever played hero battles and wasn't terrible you'll have that... seriously if you think throwing an eye on minimap to see where the enemies are takes skill you don't know what you're talking about.

2. Ability to do maths: that's where teams using vent instead of brains fail, they wait their leader to give a command to move... if he doesn't they just stand and being brainless that's why ventless hexways, iways and other lame do much better in such situations than those with vent.

I completly agree with this : many people got no idea what they are doing, and are even making people lose by their own fail .
Some examples : not following people on shrines , not watching timer , not standing on altar , thinking to be smart when making mesmer vs bbwar or other cases of suiciding, etc etc... ( basics people would have learn playing Hero battles as you said ......)

Actually , those examples are only for shrines maps , but we could easily find same kind of situations for normal fights : " give me ghost , i'm pro with it " getting either killed --> /resign , either stucked on shrines maps , people not clicking rez sig while running --> solo stucked every 3 steps , etc...

vinoth · Aug 24, 2010, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

About nerfing iway... no need for primal rage nerf (it wouldn't be bad tho).. just nerf iway skill and prism.. it's op elite which makes u immune to any spike and grants u unlimited energy and is too easy to play in iway and bbway... it's easy in bbway because u have rit displacement spammer and pnh monk so u just have to click an heal or weapon every 10 secs or so (I know because I played it) and it's easy in iway because u don't have to look out for wars just yourself and sometimes pnh monk therefore u have your energy always full so reasonable thing would be to nerf that elite skill.

Its not the prism that makes iway or bbway what it is. You can nerf it to kingdom come and yet there are more suitable e-management available. For a start, prism is good just so u can take a bit of fire and is very useful alternative to oos when spirits are not up. Otherwise, prism is actually a poor emanagemnet tool, when weighed up to channeling + other monk tools. The actual skill " Iway" is not OP. If it was OP people would be running that instead of hexway. If anything had to be said, its under powered. Cuz its hard to score kills with iway. I think BBway is OP overall but no one runs it right at the moment to cause concern. The truely imba thing is Wota but every team is beatable if you "think outside the box". This includes changing ur build to adapt or changing your play style to adapt. Come up with ways to beat it. I think OOs is a much better alternative to prism especially in bbway where one spirit is always up.

Some examples, get ur ranger to keep the sins grasped as an addition to rupting shit. That takes away a lot of pressure. You just need to add a few new styles of play for each build.

To be successful :

Observe the map: Anna u misunderstood. When a balance war calls 3 2 1, fire ele can close his eyes and unlock skill - just an example. IF you watch maps for prots going around, see what skill the opposing infuse used. See what skill mesmer is using. See if the rit is in range of the prot in uw (cuz all these rits go up these days). This is called battle observation. I know a few gvgers who use all these tactics to force pressure. Ha balance does not unfortunately. They just expect "button smash" builds to lose just cuz they run balance.

Ability to think outside the box. Its not build making i talk of. In every new meta there will be new challenges. You need to be able to adapt to them. Most balance cant these days. For example in relics, running would be the natural choice. Some pressure teams may decide to kill you before they run. As a balance, do u run or do u negate damage first. Stragely r13 + balance prefers to run while all dmg is being unloaded on ur monk. This is called adapating to situation or thinking outside the box.

Knowing when to split and using glitches : Who said I was speaking of Iways? And who said I even iway often? In any case, iway wars do negligible dmg cuz if opposing team has the right shield they hit for like 5-15 dmg and 20-35 on agonising. Thank god there are wars that change to elemental weapons when they see that. I dont see balance wars swapping weapons but they are good at claiming they can "button mash" effectively.

I was speaking generally overall about being able to split and use glitches. You can get a ghost full blocked in forgotten and in hoh. Examples: there is a place in uw where u cant get hit. There is a place on fetid to hide from rspikes. Same with burial. There are ways to stuck runner in multiple areas on relics. There are too many ways to block ghost on forgotten and anti. Learning to time kill after a team loses altar in koth and courtyard. Soo much shit. This is what differentiates between a low ranked and high ranked in HA. Sadly many Highrankers dont know how to utilise these tactics.

Swapping sets. I am a bit like u. I just have 1 shield set with -5 energy weapon for this esurge build. However, It really really helps if u swap right. I know some monks that stay on staff set whole game and the the way they take more dmg is significant. It helps your backline if u weapon swap efficiently. Luckily , my back-line swaps quiet well.

Killed u man · Aug 24, 2010, 01:37 PM // 13:37

IWAY isn't OP, the old one was, though. Where if you ran through one cycle of IWAY, and recasted it (when you still had it up) it actually added on top of the previous one, and they also had bestial fury as I recall.

After a minute orso, you had 4 warriors (or was it 5?) jumping around attacking over 50% faster. (As opposed to the current 33% cap for IAS)

But yeah, IWAY can hardly be called OP. A regular balance will not loose to it, for the simply reason that the damage is isn't as overpowering (if you have bad monks who get all their 1/4's dchopped, it's them being bad), and the defence is neither. Unlike bbsway, they only require 1 character to be fully shut down (oath shot compared to IH and ST), and shutting that character down will usually shut prisms down aswell as they won't have spirits. On top of that, unlike with bbsway, you don't have 3 people on your team perma KD'd.

I still laugh when people say BBsway is beatable by a good balanced. Then I must be an insane player, cuz whenever I ran bbsway (right after the nerf) and WoOm, aswell as all these praised top players (Braindmg, BoO, etc) got rolled in under 2 minutes.

As a matter of fact, (and I'm not even lying) I didn't loose once on a 1v1 map against any build with bbsway. (When I ran with atleast 5-6 friends instead of pugs) I think I beat WoOm and BoO and the "pug" balanced teams (with fierce, freemen, whatever) about a million times.

I must be an insane player. lulz...

Elentari · Aug 24, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

^Trying too hard.

@Vin: Great points. Good to see some ppl still have in-depth understanding of how to tombs. I'd quote and comment, but it'd take too long so I'll just simply agree.

Elemental Mio · Aug 24, 2010, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

3. Ability to think outside the box. That matters only for build making... when u play an build and u know how it works u just need to choose the best tactic and play it all the time why change playstyle if it works and wins.

5. Ability to weapon swap. Pretty much useless... unless you're snaring. Because having all those fancy nerd shield sets won't help at keeping you alive or winning the game anyway, personally I don't have time and I'm not nerd enough to make all those shields and stuff, just have one shield to provide me with additional health when needed and that's all.

U can't be serious right ? Wait u can be, this is comming from an WoTa sin himself who bought invite into GANK. Nevertheless: " Why change playstyle ". So u don't adapt playstyle to counter the other party in e.g. altar caps ? Lulz

Weapon swap useless ? Ok u just stay 24/7 on 40/40 healing set and have unlimited ( lulz ) energy vs esurge ( double lulz ). Then again ur a natural born a/e.

Seriously, don't come up here giving people all of sorts kinda of shit, while u my friend are WoTa'ing 24/7 -_-'. The only person being here who makes sense in a way is Borat.

If u got anything constructive to say, or usefull and not bullshit, please be my guest...

Otello · Aug 24, 2010, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Balance isn't kicked at all it's still strong if played right. If you got players with some brains you shouldn't have any trouble at all vs bbsway since your mesmer and ranger disable both prisms and fire ele spam rodgort on spirits... so you shouldn't have any trouble killing. About hexway...its mainly esurge and wota sins what make it strong not hexes... you can easy interrupt main hexes, but esurger and sins just steamroll u unless u can kill them very fast.

About nerfing iway... no need for primal rage nerf (it wouldn't be bad tho).. just nerf iway skill and prism.. it's op elite which makes u immune to any spike and grants u unlimited energy and is too easy to play in iway and bbway... it's easy in bbway because u have rit displacement spammer and pnh monk so u just have to click an heal or weapon every 10 secs or so (I know because I played it) and it's easy in iway because u don't have to look out for wars just yourself and sometimes pnh monk therefore u have your energy always full so reasonable thing would be to nerf that elite skill.

Nerf prism and you will find Ritualist backline. You loose damage reduction (which is a big deal), but you have better energy management.
I think it would be a good nerf, btw, it will be slight but fundamental.
@Vinoth 100% agree with you, we even say the same things some times

I don't do prot very often (I play more as ritual, frontline or infuser), but I had the neat sensation that protting vs bbsway is more easy. You just have to watch yourself with guardian, than land LS or spirit bond, also after the kd on your mate, and in most of the case this is sufficient to save him/her. I don't know if it is because my infuser was a genius (I was running with very good infusers), but it seemed to be that it is not difficult to prot on bbsway. More easy than vs a bala, at least for me (but I am not an expert prot).

Missing HB · Aug 24, 2010, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemental Mio

U can't be serious right ? Wait u can be, this is comming from an WoTa sin himself who bought invite into GANK. Nevertheless: " Why change playstyle ". So u don't adapt playstyle to counter the other party in e.g. altar caps ? Lulz

Weapon swap useless ? Ok u just stay 24/7 on 40/40 healing set and have unlimited ( lulz ) energy vs esurge ( double lulz ). Then again ur a natural born a/e.

Seriously, don't come up here giving people all of sorts kinda of shit, while u my friend are WoTa'ing 24/7 -_-'. The only person being here who makes sense in a way is Borat.

If u got anything constructive to say, or usefull and not bullshit, please be my guest...

Do you got yourself anything constructive to say ?
Apart of that , the only idea in your post is false.I myself camp on 40/40 ( not all the match ofc ) when vs esurgers because i KNOW my mesmer will rupt some skills , and i d rather not get skills pleaked or w/e . This comes close to what Killed U Man said about +10 shields ....

vinoth · Aug 24, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otello

Nerf prism and you will find Ritualist backline. You loose damage reduction (which is a big deal), but you have better energy management.
I think it would be a good nerf, btw, it will be slight but fundamental.
@Vinoth 100% agree with you, we even say the same things some times

I think prism nerf will do more harm than good tbf. Yes, it will nerf iway a bit further, but whats the point in nerfing a underpowered build? Ultimately, it will be like giving an auto buff to bbway. If bbway starts to use oos instead prism. They have a far better advantage. The build has too many spirits so oos will not kill the prism whilst it gives energy.

Killed u man · Aug 24, 2010, 05:26 PM // 17:26

@ Mio:

Pretty muhc everyone posting in this thread are the hexwayers and iway'ers we're talking about. HA has come to such a state of decline that even the people engaged on these forums are the people who "ruined the game" (Anet did, but abusing it doesn't rly help either) and played trashbuilds for their fame, and actually believe they know how GW works.

Vinoth does make some valid points though, but I just cant take him serious when he says stuff such as "5-15 dmg and 20-35 on agonising" or the fact that it takes skill to win splitmaps (Forgotten) with IWAY.

Some of his posts show that he isn't completely clueless, but when you're arguing that it requires skill to win with an IWAY on a cap points map, what the hell are you doing?!

116 AL targets running around with perma 33 IMS and 25% IAS aswell as 7 Health regen, and 4 other targets who can keep themselves alive (Whirling, Mo/P and prisms). Simply having everyone running around on random shrines should give you enough split advantage to cap just about every shrine on the map.

This build is only really surpassed by bbsway, as bbwarriors can solo even more...

Missing HB · Aug 24, 2010, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Nerfing ritualist healings ( or why not weapons only ) would solve the problem : if ST rit gets nerfed , people will use trappers ; if prism only gets nerfed , like you are saying , people will use ritualists ( or could even go back to n/rt ) .

On a sidenote , although it wouldn't be as good , people could still use el/mo or n/mo healers( replacing trappers with some hexers , etc.. )